Ayelet Zurer almost didn’t reprise her role as Vanessa Marianna on Daredevil: Born Again. Previously introduced as an art dealer in Netflix’s Daredevil TV series, she captured Wilson Fisk’s heart after selling him an expensive picture. Even though Wilson proposed to her, Vanessa fled the country after Wilson was arrested for his Kingpin crimes.
Born Again sees Vanessa, now married to Wilson, temporarily taking over his mob business in his absence. But upon his return, the power couple obviously have issues since they attend counselling sessions together. Over the season, those cracks continue to test their relationship.
In addition, the Israeli actress starred in Amazon’s biblical drama, House of David, where she portrayed King Saul’s wife, Queen Ahinoam. Zurer recently spoke to me regarding Vanessa’s new lease on life, marital woes, power struggles and adapting a historic event for TV.
Daredevil: Born Again is streaming now on Disney+.
Daredevil: Born Again has reinvented Matt Murdock [Carlie Cox] and Wilson Fisk [Vincent D’Onofrio]. How does that “Born Again” theme apply to Vanessa since we last saw her?
Ayelet Zurer: “Well, she is definitely born again, too. She is in power now. She matured from a gallerist into a businesswoman, who is dealing with an empire. Vanessa has a very specific perspective on power and how you can control other people using revenues rather than fear, which is very different from Fisk. They are starting in opposite perspectives and, also, on an emotional level they are starting in a different place.”
As you mentioned, Vanessa is in a place of power. She’s taken over Fisk’s crime syndicate. How surprised were you by that development?
Zurer: “Shocked. At first, there were a few things in the season that threw me off. I was so upset for Vanessa to lose her light and purity. At the same time, I was intrigued by the juxtaposition of me being a little older and understanding more about the world, and her growing older and understanding the world.”
“I was resistant a little bit, a tad… I am joking, of course… but a tad resistant. I like the idea of her being in power, but there were other things I was concerned about, such as the themes of loyalty, honesty and all that. But it worked really well. I feel that I found something deeper than I expected because of it.”
It’s truly an unexpected turn for the character. What does it say about Vanessa that she’s not only taken over this position, but that she is so damn good at it?
Zurer: “Yeah, she is good at it because she understands something about human beings and what drives them. She understands what drives people. Because she has a keen eye on honesty, she immediately understands if a person is dishonest, what they want, if they have a hidden agenda and what that agenda is and how to manoeuvre that. In a way, she is similar to him, but without the trauma.”
The old adage goes “Behind every great man is a great woman.” In what ways does Vanessa compliment and elevate Fisk?
Zurer: “I don’t think she is as violent, obviously. She will do anything to protect him, and them, as a couple. But she has no interest in violence or crime. At the same time, she really appreciates honesty and he offers that right off the bat. They are so brutally honest with each other. That is kind of what drives that relationship.”
“I think she compliments him because of that honesty. They are able to really know what drives them and what they really want. And I think love. Maybe they are two lonely people who found each other and are not lonely if they are together. It’s so human and normal. Love makes you feel like you are not alone in the world.”
Vanessa and Fisk might be in love and be kindred spirits, but it’s hardly marital bliss. What do these counselling sessions allow you to explore in their dynamic?
Zurer: “How deep is the crack and how far would they go to close it? She goes further than him, in a way. It’s also very funny to see these particular people in the setting of a shrink’s office. Here’s two beasts sitting down, talking about emotions. It was fun to do so, but it also gave me an opportunity to show who she is on the inside and how much honesty and trust is a big thing for her, in their relationship.”
There’s a verbal sparring between Vanessa and Fisk, but they still need to dance around specifics…
Zurer: “Yes, they really solve everything at home and by doing things, rather than just talking. But the talking helps them put things outside of themselves, so the other one can hear. The actions they take is the healing, except the actions are so extreme.”
Moving forward, Fisk’s ambition will begin to escalate. Do you feel Vanessa and Fisk are on the same page or does she have her own agenda?
Zurer: “Good question and it’s going to be revealed slowly in the show. I think he has a bigger hole in his soul to fill and she will do a lot for him, but I don’t think she needs what he needs. That is the best way to say it. “
You are also currently starring in House of David. Considering David’s journey is an iconic biblical tale, how are they breathing new life into this source material?
Zurer: “They did a lot of investigation. They use a lot of PHDs and research to dive into that. Eventually, they chose characters over historical precision, which I think helped the show become more interesting. They created characters that are more full. I feel very lucky to play the Queen. She’s a tragic character, like you would see in Greek plays, a person trying to avoid their destiny and, in doing so, creating their own destiny.”
“Personally, I really like what they’ve done with her. Also, it’s a very collaborative set. We talk a lot about the scenes and where it is going. It is based on the oldest IP but, at the same time, you have to make it work for a twenty-first century audience. There’s a little more agency to the women, obviously. And I really like the basic theme that surrounds trust and faith and when do you trust your destiny or when you control your destiny.”
Talking about the Queen, she wasn’t as prominent in the biblical stories. When you received the script, how curious were you about how the character would be fleshed out for the TV series?
Zurer: “Oh, yes, I was very concerned. We had a zoom with me on one side and the creators on another side. I was very honest. I said, ‘Women at that time were not allowed to own land. There isn’t a lot of material that fleshes her out. What are you going to do with her?’ because I wasn’t quite sold.”
“Then, they told me she was going to be the person who holds everything together when Saul [Ali Suliman] loses his mind. I thought, ‘That is very interesting. When your husband is king and you pretend everything is okay and are holding everything together, what are you going to do and what prices you are willing to pay in order to keep your family intact, specifically in that historic time frame?’ That became an interesting path that I thought I could do things with.”
As you mentioned, the Queen holds things together in terms of the family. What role does she play in King Saul’s royal duties?
Zurer: “For her, him losing his mind and descending into this illness–and she thinks he’s cursed–she believes she can fix that. If the Seer can’t help him, she will bring in a witch or dark magic, or someone who can heal him. She will do anything she can to heal him. What the Queen doesn’t understand, at this point in the story, is he is not going to be king anymore. He’s holding on to power. She’s holding on to power, but more for identity and to protect her family. “
Both the Queen and Vanessa come across as strong women. Beyond that trait, have you given much thought to the similarities between the two characters?
Zurer: “Yes, I have. I don’t think they are strong women. I would call them ‘women with strong drive.’ I think that’s the difference. I do feel that both of them have a strong drive. While Vanessa’s drive is to protect Kingpin and her as a team, what she calls ‘us’… even holding on to the empire at the beginning of the current season, she does that not for power or money, but to protect him. That’s a strong drive for her.”
“The Queen does that to protect the family and her king, more than just for power. In that sense they are similar, but the way they go about it and where they are coming and how they love are very different.”
Images courtesy of Marvel Television.
